V8 Finder 2 wrong BER and PWR

[LastManStanding]

V8 Finder 2 Firmware "GTMedia_V8FINDER2_V457_20220622"
HW Version V2.13.4

The V8 Finder 2 shows no BER (1E-09), while my TV (Samsung QN95A) shows 77E-06. The PWR seems way to high, 94.9dBµV at my Living Room SAT-Connection. This should be ~77dBµV max at this point, otherwise there is a risk of distortion of the receiver. The lowest level for a sat-receiver is 47dBµV (EN 60728-1). I can't measure the right level with the V8 Finder 2.

Is there a way to fix this issue in a new firmware?

v8Finder2-Problem.jpg (1.53 MiB) Viewed 2456 times

[CAJE]

TV (Samsung QN95A) shows 77E-06 these data are wrong, it tells you that the signal that reaches the television is wrong

[CAJE]

The PWR seems to be the sign of a community
DVB-S2, 8PSK, FEC = 2/3 >7dB you have a 16.04dB that is very good it indicates the quality of the signal

[LastManStanding]

Thank you for your quick response.
For don't to be misunderstood, my dish is aligned for the best MER, with the help of the finder 2. I'm happy with the result. But the signal strength POWER is rated way too high on the finder 2, compared to professional sat-measurement-devices.
The finder 2 should display the PWR of the actual frquency, or channel, not the strength of the whole spectrum. The GT Media V8 Satellite Finder Pro does this right, so far i can tell after watching some presentations on youtube. There is a signal level of 90% with PWR of 72.87dBµV for example, wich seems right.
My finder 2 claims a signal level of 76% is 94.4dBµV.
Is there a way to set a correction factor in the device, or am i wrong?

GT Media V8 Satellite Finder Pro on Youtube:

pro.jpg (47.58 KiB) Viewed 2435 times

My finder 2:

finder2.jpg (36.16 KiB) Viewed 2435 times

[CAJE]

Your signal is very good, unlike YouTube which is very bad, don't worry and look at the MER, the power is within technical parameters

[CAJE]

90% y 76% It depends on the devices and wiring you have, it is an unimportant piece of information that indicates which path it travels towards the LNB

[LastManStanding]

The PWR is an important measurement, it shows the level on the connections. The value dbµV is well-defined and no fantasy number. It's a logarithmic unit of voltage measurement, and the other values depends on it.
For troubleshooting, or to set up the level on a multiswitch, it has to be reasonably correct.
Who knows if the other values (MER,BER,C/R) are accurate?
When the Finder 3 can't show the right values, it can use as a satellite finder only and not for measurements.
It is a nice, handy device, but I don't need a toy.

[CAJE]

The PWR is an important measurement, it shows the level on the connections. The value dbµV is well-defined and no fantasy number. It's a logarithmic unit of voltage measurement, and the other values depends on it.
For troubleshooting, or to set up the level on a multiswitch, it has to be reasonably correct.
Who knows if the other values (MER,BER,C/R) are accurate?
When the Finder 3 can't show the right values, it can use as a satellite finder only and not for measurements.
It is a nice, handy device, but I don't need a toy.

It is not a toy and the values ​​are correct, you must know how to interpret the data that is correct, that is why it has several certificates that comply with the technical characteristics

[CAJE]

You are only here to discredit and you do not contribute anything, your comments are out of place without arguments

[EricM]

Can I ask a simple question ?

Looking for clarification on this thread:- my understanding is that 2 x GT Media meters - “finder 2 and finder pro” are being connected to an F Connector, logically one would expect the readings from both meters to be very similar and ideally having identical readings. This is clearly not the case can the manufacturers give an understanding / explanation for this lack of consistency?

[CAJE]

It depends on the constellation, the TP and the FEC that you have selected in each Finder

[CAJE]

You are only here to discredit and you do not contribute anything, your comments are out of place without arguments

I already gave you the evidence. Sent pictures with explanations. I asked you to compare the results with a reputable company, but clearly, you don't want that, because you know that all GTMedia finders are useless as far as the measured results are concerned. Come on, prove that I'm wrong and you're right. Is it necessary to list again which finders I have? Why is GTMedia only showing wrong results? Because it's a toy.

Please put back the evidence that is clear and concise
Accurately detail the problem and don't make comparisons like yesterday with YouTube images that were very bad
I already asked you for technical data that I am still waiting to know what theoretical data it should have, to compare them with the finder
Since you are not going to present technical data, I will not waste any more time in a pointless discussion.
best regards

[STRETCH]

It may be that in the said equipment, they use different tuners, just keep it simple, as long as you have signal from your satellite, it is the (Quality) of the signal that matters, also depends on what transponder you are using.

Den

[memov77]

Guys, what exactly is this about? Because in the photos above, these are 2 different transponders with different MER / CN parameters and installation.
Moreover, every professional knows that these% values ​​depend on the creativity of the programmer and are only converted from MER / CN parameters, and the signal level from the dbuV parameter. They should be identical to possibly minimal differences on both meters under the same installation / antenna and these % ratios are only approximate. If the indications of MER / CN type are different on both meters under the same installation, it only indicates that they were incorrectly calibrated, but not the % values ​​which are general. And comparing the TV values ​​is completely pointless.

[CAJE]

Guys, what exactly is this about? Because in the photos above, these are 2 different transponders with different MER / CN parameters and installation.
Moreover, every professional knows that these% values ​​depend on the creativity of the programmer and are only converted from MER / CN parameters, and the signal level from the dbuV parameter. They should be identical to possibly minimal differences on both meters under the same installation / antenna and these % ratios are only approximate. If the indications of MER / CN type are different on both meters under the same installation, it only indicates that they were incorrectly calibrated, but not the % values ​​which are general. And comparing the TV values ​​is completely pointless.

The internet image for the QPSK constellation is at MER 8 dB, which is the minimum, it is not well aligned to the satellite or it is an image when I was adjusting it, YouTube's values ​​are very bad like i said

[LastManStanding]

I'm not trusting the PWR-Value, which is too high in my opinion. The screenshot from a YouTube video was just to compare the strength vs. PWR between the Finder Pro and Finder 2. I did not know that the strength (%) is just a number, crated by the programmer.
Don't care about this picture.
The PWR should be between 47 - 77 dBµV. A higher Level could result in signal-clipping and distortion on the TV. At a level of 93.6 dBµV (what the finder2 claims at the connection in my living room) the tuner of an TV will be "grilled" and a damper is recommended. I can't believe that these PWR-Value is correct.
For finding and adjustment of a dish, it's reliable - just get the best signal and greatest MER. But for measuring of the level and adjusting the output of a multi-switch, or a cable-amplifier, you need the accurate PWR measurement. That's the difference between a satellite finder and a satellite meter.
Maybe the PWR of the Finder2 is true, maybe not. I have nothing to compare at the moment. It's only a supposition of mine, that the measurement is too high.

Another point is the spectrum - here it listed another value at the same frequency and polarity, which is half the value of the PWR.
Can the spectrum view be improved in the next firmware ?

1.png (278.17 KiB) Viewed 2213 times

[CAJE]

PWR is within the technical parameters output level of 113dBμV
You have to know why in BAT the 37.92 is not within 47 - 77 dBμV

[CAJE]

So I repeat it more and I don't know how many times. If this is a signal finder, and it should be, then it is an instrument. As such, it should measure values that are approximately correct with other finders. I have three such "instruments" xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx DVB-T(2)/DVB-S(2) Analyzer. I also have an outdated Horizon HD-TM plus, but it can still measure some DVB-T2 values.
All those 3(4) finders in the same conditions, measured results from the same source, I repeat the same source (DVB-S/S2/T/T2/C) give approximately the same measured values. PWR, MER, CBER, LBER, Strength, Quality. For the same signal, GTmedia Finders show totally wrong values, but totally. It can't even measure signals that are below 38dBuV, it shows nonsense. Totally unusable for any slightly more serious measurements. I can prove it with pictures without any problem. If, for example, a DVB-T2 signal has Strength 55%, Quality 100%, PWR 40dBuV, MER 28dB, CBER 9.2E-05 and VBER 1.0E-07, the approximate values are shown my 3 specified finders (+/-2%), and GTMedia shows totally different values by who knows what algorithms. Strength 90, Quality 92%, PWR 87dBuV, MER 19dB.
I hope it is now clear to everyone what I wrote. That's why GTMedia is a toy, and not some serious product. Especially not some kind of instrument.

You do not provide any information that can be assessed, you have already provided this information several times

[CAJE]

I'm asking you for those photos that only embarrass you because you don't put them up, and I'm sure I have more experience than you because I see you as a salesperson with no idea and not as a telecommunications technician, you have been unable to help LastManStanding in any way in his doubts

[CAJE]

I only see errors in both xxxxx and gtmedia, you have a problem with your installation

[CAJE]

I only see errors in both xxx and gtmedia, you have a problem with your installation

You and your stupid comment again. Please answer why, why GTMedia does not read the same results for the same signal source as Amiko. Mainly Strength, PWR and MER. Let everyone here read your "professional expertise". xxxxx gives accurate results, and GTMedia___

Insulting is from people who want to offend, you will not succeed because of your frustration of not understanding the data provided by the field meters
If you do not contribute anything new and coherent, I will not answer any of your comments that you make as a defamation strategy

[STRETCH]

Come on guys, cool it, lets all agree to disagree, ever one when using a tool will use it different to the last person.
Each bit of equipment, would have been checked before despatch.
Different firms will have different specs for each of there equipment, as long as the equipment does the job required, lets get on and help others.
That is my few pence worth.

Den

[STRETCH]

Just to add my few pence again, most people, find the strongest transponder first, then adjust after that.

Den

[LastManStanding]

PWR is within the technical parameters output level of 113dBμV
You have to know why in BAT the 37.92 is not within 47 - 77 dBμV

What specification you are talking about? The max. input of the Finder2?
I'm talking about the international standard IEC60728-1. The max. output of a satellite connection for DVB-S /-S2 is defined at 77 dBµV, not 113 dBµV. 113 dBµV ist the output of some switches, for large buildings and long connections, to overcome the damping of the cables. You have to measure at the endpoints and trim the level down to 77 dBµV max. at the strongest transponder. You may get serious problems if you don't. You need a trusty instrument for that purpose.

The PWR is much lower in the spectrum view. Both pictures are taken at the same connection and within 2 minutes. And for you, it's ok - you get several sizes for the same PWR value, depending on the function you are in? And the customer have to know the reason for it? At the pictures of my last post it's the same signal at the same connection, the same time, the same transponder, the same band and the same polarity - even the same Movie.
1 dBµV = 1 dBµV, in Germany, in Spain, in the USA, in every country.

I guess I have posted the wrong questions - my fault.
Thank you for your efforts.